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June 29, 2005



"Helpfully subversive" is good, but "tentative assertiveness" -- that's great!! Thanks for those phrases!

Jason Clark

what a great post Carloline, thank you. Jason.

Richard L

Way off topic, but has your blog layout suddenly changed? I lost my templates and had to create some new layouts (for Pilgrim's Progress). Typepad tell me they're working on it ...


I changed it - I so liked your new layout that I went looking for new colours and this is what I got. what do you all think? I like the colours and I like the coloured sides, but I wonder if the actual size of the blog is a bit narrow, so it involves a bit too much scrolling

Ruth S

Amen Sister!

What a great way to put it all. I've had a gut full of the 'I'm in authority, so do as I say' too. I mean 'What?!!!'. Such a hangover from the time Constantine became 'head of the church' and people went to church to curry favour and gain position.

Not that I have any answers you understand, but I am beginning to think that 'It's the end of the church as we know it'.

Umm, with regards to new blog, I think it probably is a bit narrow. Sorry.


Ooh...you're back! Yesterday whenever I tried to visit I got an error message, which was frustrating given your email alert to this post.

This resonates madly with me...I upset the ABM selectors at my first conference because I wasn't able to say that my calling to ordained ministry included a calling to leadership.To influence, yes, to mutual exploration, to enthusing...all of that.
But I've always struggled with the concept of leadership and rejoiced that I've not spent any time in the sort of church where a dictatorial model holds sway.
Now that I'm in full-time paid ministry, I guess I can see that the current pattern needs someone who is accountable,willing to take responsibility for the growth and welfare of our Christian community and our engagement with the world outside. Does that equate to leadership? Not if the L word implies imposing a vision...can't be done fruitfully, I'm sure of that. But setting people on fire with it? Taking risks with them, and not knowing what we'll end up with?
Allowing God to be creative with all of us? Yes please.
Is that an abdication speech???!


I don't think so Kathryn, but there is a skill (that is something that needs to be practiced) in letting others lead us, in noticing the ideas (from others) that will lead us.

I don't think that it is easy, but I wonder if it might be a somewhat less lonely road than some ministers walk


hey caroline. every decent leader would give blood for followers like these!! and in fact they wouldn't be bad characteristics for decent leaders either...


Aha!? Perhaps that's the point, perhaps our focus on 'leaders' is the very problem that creates the passive followers we expect?

I'll blog about subject-object relations (Que? I hear you all ask) later today.

Wes Roberts

...here, here! I'll drink to all that...inside and outside communion (of all kinds)!!! PLEASE keep writing on this subject...I need to learn from you...and with you. May I follow? I hope so. You are sharing thoughts that need to be enhanced. Wonder what you and the Maggi could whip up together? :) I/we need your wisdom...and creative thinking...on this crucial topic. Thank you!

Wes Roberts

PS...the new look is splendid...engaging.


good ideas - if there is one thing that is hard it is in trying to lead a blancmange. people say leading people with opinions is like trying to herd cats, but giving direction to an apathetic morass of indecision is even harder.
i also wonder if being a good leader is being releasing enough to allow your followers to be like this - ie, you have to be fundamentaly out of control in your church/company/family, etc


I think that the control issue is an important part of situtation,

but somehow, gradually, we need to move away from a situation where A leader is so important, and frankly the first change would be for those in leadership positions to consider how they might change relations so as to be lead more


Hi Caroline - eventually got here and it's well worth it. Loved your definition of 'coherence'.Plenty to think further about in time.

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